How do spell/magic resistance and spell/magic immunity work?Per the PHB (p. 197) rules on damage resistance:If a creature or an object has resistance to a damage type, damage of that type is halved against it.So perhaps spell resistance halves damage from spells. Does spell resistance confer protection against non-damaging effects? Does it help with saving throws against charms or web, for example? What about spell immunity?Per the MM (p.
8) rules on vulnerabilities, resistances and immunities:Some creatures have vulnerability, resistance, or immunity to certain types of damage. If a creature is immune to a game effect that isn't considered damage or a condition, it has a special trait.This is a bit sparse.Aside from the PHB rules above on damage resistance, I can't find any reference to immunities or resistances in the indices of the DMG, PHB, or MM.EDIT: Following up on Oblivious Sage's comment below: a number of entries in the MM aside from the Tarrasque have 'magic resistance' as an ability, notably more powerful devils, demons, angels, etc. These are consistently of the 'Advantage on saving throws versus spells and other magical effects.' There are no such things in D&D 5e, at least not in a way that would be familiar from experience with previous editions.Special Traits are explained on the following page in the Monster Manual.
Special Traits are, well, special: they are abilities designed specifically for that creature and are defined per-creature in the creature's entry.Immunities and damage resistance special traits tend to be a straightforward labelled list — for example, the Banshee (p. 23) is immune to a variety of damage types and conditions, and is resistant to another list of damage types. This works similarly to previous editions and won't require an adjustment in how you think about it.Magic resistance, on the other hand, uses the special trait space to define how it works for that specific creature. An example is the Death Knight (p. 47), which has Magic Resistance — it says how it works for Death Knights as part of the creature:The death knight has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.This way of defining special traits with an ad hoc rule particular to that creature allows the designers and the DM significant flexibility when creating creatures.
We are starting a new Burn thread since Burn is obviously an archetype that many members are interested in discussing. Developed into a 25 page discussion – one of our longest - within three months. This amount of discussion shows us that people love to talk about burn.But the Burn thread is also a Moderator’s nightmare. Out of those 25 pages, there are more worthless posts, undeveloped posts, and flames than I care to count. Previous burn threads have followed the same pattern: they are heavily flooded with junk and then heavily modded. Next, they are flooded with more junk and moderators become frustrated and later apathetic and the thread spirals into a disaster. Be wary of making worthless posts.In this new thread, please make posts that are well-developed and free of flames.
Keep in mind that most issues about burn have been discussed to death. It will be very difficult to come to a consensus about the following issues and these issues will be heavily modded:. Browbeat. Lava Dart. # of Mountains needed to support Fireblast.
The Demon Firesage also has unremarkable fire defense itself, making fire-based weapons effective. It is possible to skip the boss by being 2+ in the Chaos Servant covenant and using the shortcut to Lost Izalith. Example calculation. First off, there is more than 100% of physical damage conversion, so the values are scaled to total 100%. As a result, 50% of physical damage will become Cold Damage, 25% will become Fire Damage, and 25% will become Lightning Damage.
ForkLastly, we had asked for submissions to restart the thread and have received a number of quality ones. I will post them below, giving credit to authors. By GrahBurn.Burn is and has been a mainstay of MTG for years in various forms. There are a lot of forms of it in Legacy, but there are certainly quite a few cards in the mainstream builds.The first thing to know is that these slots are totally, utterly non-negotiable:4 Lightning Bolt4 Incinerate4 Chain Lightning4 Magma Jet4 Fireblast3 Flamebreak (or Earthquake) (Many people have 4.
You need at least 3.)You can toy around with the rest, but these 24 slots are REQUIRED to make a Legacy Burn deck good. These are the best red spells available.GRAH-style Burn:18 Mountain4 Mogg Fanatic4 Lightning Bolt4 Incinerate4 Chain Lightning4 Magma Jet4 Fireblast4 Flamebreak4 Chain of Plasma4 Lava Spike2 Browbeat1 Sulfuric Vortex3 Price of Progressbigbear102-style Burn:16 Mountain4 Wasteland4 Mogg Fanatic4 Lightning Bolt4 Incinerate4 Chain Lightning4 Magma Jet4 Fireblast4 Lava Spike3 Price of Progress3 Earthquake3 Fork2 Pithing Needle1 Sulfuric VortexBurn, or at least our version, focuses on making your opponent's cards dead. Their creature, artifact, nonbasic, and enchantment hate is all pretty much wasted on this deck. You, however, should rarely be having any dead cards. Just keep pounding, while burning away any immediate creature threats.A comment both Zilla and I have made is that this functions a lot like a combo deck; most like Solidarity, strangely. It's possible to 'fizzle' in the sense that you simply run out of steam.
This doesn't always happen, and Magma Jet really helps against this. One of the major causes of this is the lack of a reliable draw engine. Unfortunately, since this IS red, that's not available.The differences between these two are less subtle than you'd think. Bigbear's version is a more metagamed version, with Pithing Needle, Wasteland and Fork, playing more lands and a finishing one-two punch, whereas I dropped Fork and lowered my land count for a little more speed, even at the small risk of 'fizzling.'
Note that Bigbear only plays Earthquake because of Wasteland-Flamebreak is strictly superior to Earthquake.Some of the card choices:Mogg Fanatic - This card is incredible. Despite the 'make creature hate dead' idea of this deck, Fanatic is an exception because they can really never kill it.
It functions as a one-mana Fire versus most decks, and it's absolutely great versus Goblins since it takes Lackeys out so well.Lava Spike - While most people see it as Lightning Bolt's retarded cousin, it's incredibly good since it's still a 1-for-3, which is good. It and Mogg Fantastic are the first cards you should be playing.Chain of Plasma - It's rarely ever copied, and when it is, you'll usually be copying it back. It's most often just an Incinerate.Price of Progress - I originally included this as a metagame card. It's turned out to be one of the mainstays in the deck. It improves your bad matchups against Gro and Fish because it does IMMENSE damage to them (6-8 on average), and averages out at 4 damage generally. With more Goblin decks playing duals AND Wasteland/Port, this is even better.Browbeat - It's considered a bad card, but it's usually just a really undercosted Lava Axe, which is damn good. And, when your opponent is at low enough life, it draws you into the win next turn.Fork - It's an army knife sort of card.
It's mostly for copying Fireblasts, but it can function as an Incinerate or a counter-counterspell.Sulfuric Vortex - The single copy of both is often a strange surprise. Vortex is good against so many decks that it's worth MDing one.Sideboard options:Pithing Needle - This card is a lot like Naturalize in green decks. It can do well against so many decks that it's worth including.Flaring Pain - While it serves the same purpose as Needle versus COP: Red, it can also be good for stopping Sphere of Law and Worship, which Needle cannot.Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast - Blue is rather prevalent in the format, with Solidarity. You also can use these to take out Chills.
Play no less than 6 of these, combined. I play 4 of each.Sirocco - Solidarity says goodbye.Anarchy - More tech against stuff like COP: Red and Sphere of Law. It's particularly good against Angel Stompy. However, its cc is so high that it can be a liability.Splashes:For both of these splashes, what I'd recommend most is replacing 8 Mountains with 6 fetchlands and 2 of the appropriate duals, a la Goblins.-White Splash: One of the splashes that has been proposed is a white splash for Lightning Helix in the MD (a negligible choice), and Disenchant in the sideboard. Disenchant is real anti-hate. It takes out all of the major red hate cards.-Blue Splash: A recent suggestion is a blue splash, for Alter Reality and perhaps Blue Elemental Blast.
Alter Reality is even better than Disenchant against hate. Change Chill into 'Blue spells cost (2) more to play' and watch your opponent die.Tips on playing Burn:While Burn can be seen as an autopilot deck, it's hardly that. A lot of skill is required in deciding whether to aim at the head, or the field. The first things you should play are Lava Spike and Mogg Fanatic, unless there is an immediate threat. This allows you to play your creature-killing things later, for conservation. Magma Jet should target creatures more than other spot-burn, since it deals the least damage.
Flamebreak is a reset against creature-based decks-it's alright to take a little bit of damage so you can throw a burn spell at the head rather than waste it. Go as fast as possible. The longer you wait, the easier it'll be for your opponent to overcome you.What you need to remember most is this: EVEN AGAINST GOBLINS, YOU ARE ALMOST ALWAYS THE AGGRO ROLE. This deck wants its turn-4 wins.Matchups:-Goblins: A great matchup. Flamebreak shines here as you completely wipe their forces out. You really shouldn't burn their creatures other than Warchief, Piledriver, and SOMETIMES Lackey.
Sever the head and Flamebreak the body.-Landstill: Almost a bye, even with all their hate. Game 1 is pathetically easy. Just keep aiming at the head and don't look back.
For game 2, you can board in Sulfuric Vortexes and Pithing Needle or Flaring Pain to hate THEIR hate.-Solidarity: This plays out like a Solidarity mirror match. Just keep the steady flow of burn. You'll probably lose game 1, but in game 2 you can board in 8 REBs and just shoot away at their combo pieces.
I suggest REBing the High Tide.-Gro: Possibly the worst matchup, just like Solidarity. They have a steady supply of counterspells combined with a good clock. Other than Dryad (which is easy to kill), once they hit Threshold, their stuff is outside of Flamebreak range. That is an issue. They also board in Chills. I recommend SBing in REBs for this matchup.-Angel Stompy/WW: Though you would think this would be a bad matchup, it really isn't. Just because you can't handle a couple creatures doesn't mean you have a problem, because they have a really poor-quality clock and no way to prevent your burn.
Then, Flaring Pain or Anarchy can come in, and it'll go the same way, even through Worship or Pariah.Issues at hand:-As I said before, this deck can have a problem with 'fizzling.' Zilla proposed we add a slower but longer-term win condition to stop this.
So far, though, no one has decided on how to implement this. By BigBearBurn. I need to stress that this thread is about BURN. Not goblins, not sligh, but straight up, smash it over your head BURN.The archetype has grown immensely in the past few months, and seems to be growing by leaps and bounds lately. By StupidBurnKidAs a proud new member to the source, I would like to make my first post about a deck I have cradled in my arms like a sick puppy since the day of its inception; way back in the day when I first picked up a Magic card around fourth edition.At one point I was playing cards like Hammer of Bogarden, Viashino Sandstalker, and Volcanic Dragon, recognizing red's strength of hitting fast and hard, using what little semblence of card advantage red has to its advantage.
Since the days of Vision's Bogarden Phoenix and Suq'ata Lancer, which I loved as novelty cards more so than the power they brought to the deck, my red deck (you may note I refrained from making a claim to the type of deck it is, whether it be burn, sligh, or what have you, it has seen it all) has evolved into something that most would consider burn, and some would consider sligh. It has taken many forms over the years, but it has always been red, as I have always loved the philosophy of fire.I recently T8'd with it in a legacy GPT as my third major constructed tournament appearance ever.
One such appearance was a Champions block PTQ about a month ago and the second one being the Legacy Dual for Duals in Richmond only a matter of weeks ago, so as you can see, my knowledge of what you all deem the 'metagame' is a pretty knew subject as my advanced knowledge of the game is slim. To go along with my competitive tournament appearances, I've entered a number of 1.5 tournaments here locally in Northern VA at The Lucky Frog over the past few months to dip my feet into the tournament scene, and get a taste for some of the inherrent strengths and weaknesses of the deck I've put to the test and through the ringer over the years.I have come to the source in the hopes that you can put the spot light on some of these weaknesses so that I can further refine the deck into something that can stand up to the field. Yes, that's right, I am giving you a free pass to flame the hell out of me for playing Ball Lightning, to which I say. There's a reason I made it as far as I did in the GPT, but then again, a reason I might not have made the top spot. Taken from a post by DoodlebirdHere's a run down of some generalities that I've been discussing elsewhere about burn decks (mostly obvious, but need to be stated).a) keep mana curve very low - only a few 3 cast allowed, all else should be 1 and 2, and heavy on the 1.b) permanents are weakness and should be avoided if possible (things like mogg fanatic, seal of fire, etc. Just a couple other things:-To note, StupidBurnKid's build deviates a LOT from the 'accepted' build (which is done nicely in bigbear's section where he gives my decklist from a week or two ago.:)), because it includes fetchlands, Barbarian Ring, Lavamancer, and Cursed Scroll.
That's not to say that it's a bad deck, but it's not the way we've been going.-Chill and Sphere of Law are the two worst cards for this deck to face. The former can be stopped by boarding enough REBs (I board 8), but the latter is really hard to stop. That's why I go in favor of Flaring Pain over Pithing Needle. That said, luckily, many people are not smart enough to play Sphere of Law.-Pyrokinesis is not a good card. I've seen it mentioned a lot of times, but it's simply not good.
You're never going to target 4 creatures (or even 3, usually), so, since it can't target players, it's always worse than 2 burn spells.-Solidarity is a 45/55 matchup pre-board, and somewhere around 55/45 post-board. It's difficult, but if you play the deck right, you can win. I didn't exactly cover this in my post. The problem in g1 is that you have a bunch of pseudo-dead cards, like Flamebreak. After you board in, target your REBs directly at High Tide.-This deck is INCREDIBLY vulnerable to noob-style deck changes, because of its simplicity. As much as I really hate to say it, there are certain requirements that you have to follow.
It's a lot more rigid than it looks. First of all, I would like to thank the mods for their hard work and the new thread. Now, to business.@Lava Dart: This card can be good, but I don't like it in this deck. You will almost never be targeting creatures with this, so this is 2 cards for 2 damage. Shock would be better in this deck, as it's 1 card for 2 damage, and we aren't playing that either.@Creatures: One of the only forms of card advantage this deck can generate is making your opponent's creature removal dead.
Therefore, you want to provide as few targets as possible, which means no Grim Lavamancer or Ball Lightning. However, Mogg Fanatic is an exception, as it can sac to deal damage and is great vs. Gobbos.@Splashing: I support the white splash as not only does it give us access to Disenchant, it gives us Lightning Helix for the slot that in mono-red burn is constantly alternating between Flame Rift, Chain of Plasma, and Volcanic Hammer. I use 4x Plateau and 4x red fetchlands to support it. Should I use more fetchlands?@Cursed Scroll: It seems to me like this would be the best choice for the slower, long-term win condition GRAH mentioned.
Has anyone tested it?@Absolute Law: I don't know why this scares bigbear, but it doesn't scare me. If goblins is taking the time to play this, than they're giving me time to go to the head.@Rolling Earthquake: This has been proposed as a replacement for Flamebreak. There are almost no fliers that scare us that this can really hit, (If you have 6 mana to cast this for 5 to kill an Exalted Angel you've probably already lost anyways) and to deal more damage than Flamebreak, you have to spend 5 mana. The only time when this might be good is when you play Wastelands, which brings me to my next point.@Wasteland: How has this been working for you, bigbear?
It seems like it would weaken your mana base in most matchups for a gain in the Gro matchup to me, but I really don't know.I can post my list if anyone wants, but I didn't think it was necessary here. My build that I have been using is more of a RDW, than pure Burn.
Anyhow I got together with some friends this weekend and played a few games. All were using no sideboard. Against each build, there were approximately 5 games played.- All numbers are my win percentage.WW (8 red creatures) + Angels: 60%Fling Affinity: 80%Goblins: 60%Sui Black: 100%High Tide: 20%Overall, it performed around 64% which was all pre-board. Below was the build I used.// Lands14 Mountain2 Bloodstained Mire2 Wooded Foothills// Creatures3 Grim Lavamancer4 Slith Firewalker4 Ball Lightning4 Mogg Fanatic// Spells4 Fireblast4 Incinerate4 Lightning Bolt4 Magma Jet4 Chain Lightning4 Lava Spike// Artifacts3 Cursed ScrollI don't like Wasteland in Burn or Sligh or RDW. I feel it weakens the mana base too much.
Kabal, you're going into Sligh/RDW range on that one, and this thread is for Burn, not Sligh. (by the way, Angel Stompy, Fling Affinity, and especially Sui Black are not good gauntlet decks)Slith Firewalker is poor for this deck. It deals damage at an incredibly slow rate. This deck can support so many better choices on turn 2 that I don't know why you don't. Same goes for Ball Lightning.As for Cursed Scroll.I really want to play it, but it's so poor in the early game. I think the MD Sulfuric Vortex and a Chain of Plasma could be dropped for 2, but to be honest, I happen to hate the card. @GRAHThanks for the feedback.I know that it the build I provided is a variant of RDW like I stated above, just some (or maybe one) of the above post from another poster was a Sligh/RDW build as well.I also aware that some of the decks I played against some aren't considered to be in the upper-most tier, but you play against what you can.
No one had any optimal LandStill, Sensei, or even Keeper. I still thought might be interesting to show the results anyhow.As for Cursed Scroll, yeah I don't really want to use 3, but 2 just doesn't cut in. I don't believe that there is a better card to replace it. On to Sith firewalker, he does come out a turn later and for additional mana than Pup, but he has performed so very much better for me. Not to mention, I just can't stand the synergy (Gempalm Incinerator my Pup for 5) I give me opponent by playing Jackal Pup.:p Ball Lightning as won me many games. This was said at the beginning of the last Burn thread and will be reiterated in this one because it is important. This thread is for discussing Burn.
It is not for the discussion of its cousins, RDW and Sligh. While similar, these two decks are idealogically different from Burn, in that one of Burn's core tenets is to avoid the use of any nonland permanents as a way of making many of the opponent's cards dead, hence providing virtual card advantage. This strategy is not inherent in Sligh or RDW, whcih tend to have a roughly equal balance of nonland permanents and burn spells. Therefore, in order to keep this discussion on track, do not post RDW or Sligh threads here. If you wish to discuss those archetypes, please start seperate threads for them. @ Sulfuric Vortex (I have Pyrostatic Pillar in my board)I can't figure out what matchups its good against when you compare it to the pillar. Against Solidarity, it's slow to nearly useless.
Against Goblins, it's still slow. Against rune red, you lose to your own vortex. It sure helps against control or R/G survival (Baeloff), but is it really necessary? I like the Pillar, but it only really seems to come in against Solidarity (never played against stax) Someone needs to help me out here with the pros/cons of each.It's good against Goblins with Jitte, which can spell trouble in g1. I am considering putting in Cursed Scroll instead, though. @ PyrokinesisIt's instant speed four points of damage (for free).
I like it alot, as it will allow you to ditch some sorcery speed burn to take out a warchief and a piledriver (definately a surprise you don't want to be left vulnerable to) or a cycled DoJ. What would replace it? Pithing needle? This is assuming we're not splashing for Alter Reality or Disenchant, which we don't really need to do because of the Anarchy (is Chill that big of a problem? Technically, it doesnt actually prevent you from casting anything).Instant 4.to creatures only.at the cost of two cards.
I'd much rather have the option to aim at the head. Plus, why would we need cards vs. @ Price mainWow, what a dead card in the main. I can see it instead of Pyrokenisis in the Sideboard, but what matchups is it used against that we would need help with? Don't just tell me, any deck with non-basics.Have you been playing competent people? The only top deck other than Solidarity that doesn't play 8 or more permanent nonbasics is-gasp-this one. Goblins now plays 4x Port and 4x Wasteland along with their duals, and Fish and Gro, the two worst matchups, play so many duals that an average PoP deals 6-8 damage.
@ Chain of PlasmaI like it, in theory. You can prepare for it by saving a land or two, turning them into burn, a two point spell into three, or by ditching that second Fireblast when you only have three lands. Plus, its more instant speed burn (why is Volcanic Hammer even considered when this is available?). I've never actually had any at my disposal, so, I've never actually tried it.It's always an Incinerate. Few competent players will copy it back, because then they'll be taking six. That's not good for them.
@ Scroll and Barbarian RingsI think three of each is too many, as you don't actually want to see them early in the game. Neither of them actually do anything other than clog up your board early, so two seems ideal.
The reason they're in there in the first place is that they can take out random pro red dorks with a jitte or a pariah strapped to their backs, or punch through a main-decked Rune-red. Otherwise, without some sort of answer in the main, you auto scoop. The single vortex is a nice idea, but I think the Scrolls have more versatillity/consistency while not actually damaging you. Besides, it's more damage than that mountain would ever do.
![Mtg ruling on source of dmg fire stick Mtg ruling on source of dmg fire stick](/uploads/1/2/5/6/125636825/863142448.png)
The only problem with this is making you vulnerable to wastelands. But that's a mute point if you can hold it in your hand untill it's go time to fling your uncounterable burn.Why do you need Ring vs. Pro-red guys? There are no decks playing creatures with pro-red to fear, and it's not like it helps versus Jitte. It's RR for 2 damage that can't be done until you're about to kill your opponent.And please learn how to spell 'moot.' What do you guys think about Flames of the Blood Hand if you don't like Ball Lightning? It beats through RuneRed, cancels out anything like renewed faith, jitte counters, or a baeloff, to give you some extra time to burn them out, and is an extra answer to a pariah lock or someone running pulse of the fields (which is definately a concern I've been grappling with).
It does take away some of the pop you could have from the ball, but, it takes out a creature or two while giving more consistency (because the flames is much more likely to hit than the ball, against all matchups, to be honest) Oh, and its an instant.It's been discussed, and it's not good. Browbeat is a good three-mana tradeoff because it can be efficient burn OR, in the mid/lategame, much needed card advantage. Flames is not a very efficient burn spell. Neither is Ball Lightning. Just a quick point GRAH, I noticed in your build that you dropped a Mountain for another Chain. I tried this out in a tourney on Saturday (I'm a shameless netdecker) and it seemed that I got mana screwed out of more games than I've previously been seeing. How has this been working for you, as I quickly changed back to 19 lands and I've been happy ever since.
I keep getting mana flooded. I'm not going to go down to 17 lands, but I keep drawing so many damn lands it gets tiring.Whit3 Ghost:Ankh doesn't really help any bad matchups, so I really don't see the point in playing it. Doodlebird, your versions are considered strictly inferior to the mainstream.
There's really no need to post them. You play either outdated or subpar stuff in all of them, and we've discussed a lot of this already. This thread was made so we wouldn't have to make so many redundant statements.(At least you've stopped playing Mages' Contest)Well, I must say that a blanket statement like that is just pushing for an argumentative response, which from you I'm so shocked.Yeah, haven't used any contest for a while.Anyway only the first deck labeled 'mine' is mine, the other three are list of others, hence coming under the title 'other'.the fisrt one is one clutterd with permanents so as to not give minimal targets, but many, and all dealing damage (or being sac food). It's still a race and stops many deck types MD, the Sb is less important here.The second is much the standard with inclution of lavamancer (though this is, me included, largely considered alibility more than help; along with ball lightning and scroll that also often show up in this thinking).The third is almost all direct and uses some situational card that prove highly efficient damage when the meta works out right.Both of the last two are more dependent on the SB for some matches in the meta (though the third mostly assumes to outpace it all).it's all goodthanks and enjoy.